Gary Renard and Cindy Lora-Renard talk with Bruce Rawles in this video about looking – from our right minds – at current events in the context of A Course in Miracles. The discussion reminds us that anything that seems to disturbs our peace is an ego misinterpretation and we can call upon Holy Spirit in our mind for the correction. Here are some quotes shared during this conversation that relate to the Course’s idea of right-mindedness:
“This is not a course in philosophical speculation, nor is it concerned with precise terminology. It is concerned only with Atonement, or the correction of perception. The means of the Atonement is forgiveness. The structure of “individual consciousness” is essentially irrelevant because it is a concept representing the “original error” or the “original sin.” To study the error itself does not lead to correction, if you are indeed to succeed in overlooking the error. And it is just this process of overlooking at which the course aims.” – C.In.1
“Right-mindedness listens to the Holy Spirit, forgives the world, and through Christ’s vision sees the real world in its place.” – C.1.5:2
“In this world the only remaining freedom is the freedom of choice; always between two choices or two voices.” – C.1.7:1
“The power of decision is your one remaining freedom as a prisoner of this world. You can decide to see it right. What you made of it is not its reality, for its reality is only what you give it.” – T.12.VII.9:1-2
“The alertness of the ego to the errors of other egos is not the kind of vigilance the Holy Spirit would have you maintain.” – T.9.III.1:1
“All forms of not-right-mindedness are the result of refusal to accept the Atonement for yourself. If you do accept it, you are in a position to recognize that those who need healing are simply those who have not realized that right-mindedness is healing.” – T.2.V.4:4-5
“The ego seeks to divide, and the Holy Spirit seeks to unite.” – Gary Renard
“We’re not bodies; we’re minds, and minds are truly joined, so we can never really be apart.” – Cindy Lora-Renard
Cindy and Gary are working collaboratively on a book about relationships, as well as their 2nd and 5th books, respectively. Here are their two most recent books – Cindy’s first, and Gary’s fourth, both highly recommended!
and
Lyn Johnson and Bruce Rawles read and discussed Gary’s 4th book (TLWJABKEO: AHOMC above) during Saturday morning conversations on ACIMGather; between Nov. 2017 and Dec. 2018; you can listen to all of these recordings here.
You can learn more about Cindy and Gary’s online and in-person workshops, classes and much more – all highly recommended! – from their respective websites: CindyLora.com and GaryRenard.com
… Update 6July2020: I just discovered this technique (YouTube “hack” #5) for viewing and copying the auto-generated transcript of the YT video above, so I’m posting it below – unedited, except for correcting the spelling of my last name and Cindy’s – for your amusement/enjoyment. Gotta love those autocorrect (and now transcript) forgiveness opportunities and comic relief moments! :-) Have fun studying and practicing A Course In “Merkel’s” :-)
hi this is Bruce Rawles I’m speaking
today with Gary Renard and Cindy Lora
Renard who I’m very a fan of they’re
both of their work and big time and I’m
imagine for a lot of people listening
and watching this are – and Gary and
Cindy have both written books on a
course of miracles and surprise surprise
we thought we’d talk about a course of
miracles and in particular we thought we
talked about current events and how to
use our right-minded perspective to look
at what’s going on in the world and see
things differently
so anyway welcome Gary and Cindy it’s
great to be talking with you again great
to be with you – thank you for joining
with us on this some great topic a
right-minded way to look at current
events so we’re recording this on June
11th in 2020 and if somebody has just
emerged from under a rock or a deep
jungle and an indigenous culture
somewhere or whatever and isn’t aware of
what’s going on there’s there’s things
like pandemics and and racial situations
and global stuff that seems to be
happening in the world and those are
probably just a couple of things we
could touch on and and talk about you
know what of course Merkel’s perspective
all that might be so do you want to dive
in yeah yeah sure you know I was as
early as March listen you know this is
turning out to be one messed up year
wait I mean it just keeps going that way
it keeps getting even more complicated
which the ego votes you know do you go
most things that are complicated
I used to quote it Facebook last week
and it says that the difference between
the egos projection and the Holy
Spirit’s extension is that the ego seeks
to divide
and the holster it seeks to unite and
man what has been going on this year is
just a great example of that
you know it starts off with dividers and
all kinds of separation you know I get
to stay separate for other people and
then after a while that’s not I couldn’t
nothing either now people have started
arguing about things like you were
masked or not you know whose side do you
on the Conservatives or the Liberals or
whatever it just keeps going and then
you know this whole demonstration once
again it’s like you have to choose sides
and not that was difficult for us but at
the same time as course students we want
to remember to have true empathy with
all people because they’re not really
people you know I don’t start right off
by telling them that if they don’t know
but at the same time everybody is equal
in the Holy Spirit sighs so we want to
think like the Holy Spirit we want to
return to Spirit in our awareness in our
experience and we want to thank the way
the Holy Spirit things which means that
we want to include everybody and I
remember he was so interesting earlier
this week on Monday there was a huge
demonstration like a parade and they
were coming down sunset we lived in West
Hollywood and they’re coming on sunset
and they saw you know the cops blocking
the intersection of Sunset Laurel and
our street just happens to be before
that so all 2011 decided to make a left
and come right by our house and so we
heard them coming like we know about it
was like what the hell is that and we
saw him so we all everybody in the
building practically went out you know
on the front lawn around sharing for him
you know black lives matter and so you
know we could empathize with them then
the next day the very next day there was
another demonstration around
and I’m on this day all of you were like
seven or eight policemen in policewoman
who for some reason we’re standing right
in front of our house and it looked like
maybe they were getting ready to go to
the demonstration and I’m thinking well
I’ll be well enough alone here and I’ll
just watch what they’re gonna do but
that’s not good enough for Cindy right
Cindy always the peacemaker decides to
walk out there and have a chat with them
all right so I’m looking at this and all
sudden Cindy is out there talking to
like seven or eight you know peace
officers and they’re having a good old
time you know a nice conversation and
laughing and she has her picture taken
with done and all that and that’s me it
was a perfect example of Cindy the city
is like someone who wants to include
everybody and that’s exactly what the
course just said about the Holy Spirit
you know totally spirit does not divide
and of course the Holy Spirit goes
further than that ultimately everywhere
the Holy Spirit looks it sees itself
because it sees oneness everywhere so it
overlooks all these divisions and all
these things that the ego is very
cleverly and ingeniously laying on us to
get us to divide and separate from each
other at the level of the mind and the
Holy Spirit just overlooks all of that
and joins with everybody in a condition
of oneness and that’s really the answer
to all of this you know is to not get
sucked in to all the confusion in the
division and think in terms of oneness
and wholeness and see spirit in
innocence everywhere and if we can do
that without exception then we’re doing
in course examples and if we are not
well that’s okay it’s not a sin we can
just notice that we’re not quite doing
that and try even harder to make it work
well said and the topic was looking so I
think it’s just you know looking without
condemnation and noticing when we’re in
our right minds and
giving ourselves when or not yeah
overlooks anything in the back so we can
overlook that and since you mentioned
since you mentioned that word I have I’m
actually overlooking the Pacific Ocean
here and this the street that we moved
to a few years ago is called overlook so
I get a reminder over every day when I
look at that sign that I can overlook
the dream and look through the illusion
with Holy Spirit’s help so well you know
our I want to remind people that our
topic is you know a right minded way to
look at current events so you know we
when right mindedness is is really
really that’s what healing is is when
we’re in our right minds where our
healing light and when the course says
you know there’s a right minded way to
look at the world to look is really to
overlook which is mean to forgive to
overlook is to forgive the world that we
see so it doesn’t mean that we ignore
what’s going on around us in other words
that were pretending that it doesn’t
matter or they’re not people that are
suffering it just means we’re
overlooking the errors of others and we
do that through through forgiveness and
forgiving it and what I wanted to do is
just lay a brief foundation before we
get even deeper into this for people
just to set the tone of what this means
to be in your right mind but also what
the whole purpose of the course is let
me just review this this is from the
introduction in the clarification of
terms I’m just going to read a few
sections here and then read a couple
things from in a clarification of terms
under mind and spirits and then just go
from there about the right mind right
yeah I just because this is again laying
the whole foundation of what the purpose
of the course is when we really
understand what the purpose of the
course is we understand how then we can
you know look
get events that are just that might seem
disturbing to us or that pushes our
buttons or tempts us to move into the
wrong mind or the ego-mind and then how
to make the switch back to the right
mind you know where the Holy Spirit
resides so I just want to read this this
comes from the first paragraph and the
clarification of terms of the
introduction so Jesus is saying this is
not a course in philosophical
speculation
nor is it concerned with precise
terminology it’s concerned only with
atonement or the correction of
perception this the means of the
atonement is forgiveness the structure
of quote individual consciousness is
essentially irrelevant because it’s a
concept representing the quote original
error or the original sin to study the
error itself does not lead to correction
if you are indeed to succeed in
overlooking the error so we don’t want
to analyze the error and make it real we
want to overlook which the course is
saying is to forgive it which we’ll get
into so it’s just this process of
overlooking or forgiving at which the
course ain’t that’s the purpose of the
course to forgive and overlook errors
and others and ourselves in to make it
about joining and wholeness and oneness
overlooking error means to not pretend
that your body’s eyes don’t see what’s
happening it’s to remind yourself that
those bodies those people out there are
really perfect spirit they’re really
home and innocent and the errors are not
of them it’s of the ego mind which is
the false self it’s not really who they
are and we can overlook that those are
just mistakes that call for correction
which means we shift to the right minded
way of looking which is to forgive and
see with Christ vision people and those
events that have set us which means that
we now see what we would think of as in
Justices you know out there in the world
would really be then a call for help a
call for union a call for love
instead so if we look at you know part
one in the clarification of terms
undermines spirit of course says right
mindedness listens to the Holy Spirit
forgives the world and through Christ’s
vision sees the real world in its place
so this is how we can look at any
current event right now or let’s even
take a specific example of the officer
that appeared to be responsible for the
passing of George Floyd right let’s take
that now it doesn’t mean at this level
of the world that there aren’t seeming
and justices and it should be dealt with
accordingly in other words we don’t want
to let someone who appears to be harming
or abuse someone just be allowed to
continue that but at the same time we
can see all people is the same you can
see that all people are calling for love
as that officer was doing or expressing
love George Floyd appeared to be at the
effects or a victim of the officer and
at this level again we we don’t want to
ignore that we don’t want to just say oh
it’s okay if someone’s abusing someone
or what we want to do is remember at the
mind level that we can look at the
situation differently and then when
we’re in our right minds which is the
forgiving mind the Holy Spirit Minds
Christ’s vision that sees all people as
really innocent spirit we can then let
the love extend through us and let that
be what guides us as to the most
appropriate actions to take at the world
level so just because the world you know
the course says the world is an illusion
which it is I just want to make the
important point that it doesn’t mean we
don’t do anything and just pretend that
oh it’s an illusion so it doesn’t matter
that persons suffering or doesn’t mean
we don’t have compassion for people in
our situations
so what we want to do in situations like
that is ask ourselves when we’re viewing
it where are we in our minds when we’re
watching it are we in our right mind our
wrong mind and then he says Jesus says
in the course so to be in the right mind
is to see with Christ vision and you can
forgive it but then to be in the wrong
line means we’re listening to the ego
which makes illusions perceiving sin
we’re making the sin or error real and
just we’re justifying anger seeing guilt
disease and death is real in this world
the only remaining freedom he says here
is the freedom of choice so even in
situations that were viewing with our
minds you can remember as we’re
reviewing it as we’re viewing it again
am I in my wrong mind right now in my
right mind and I can tell which mind I’m
in by how I’m feeling what is my mood am
i judging am i condemning what’s going
on no matter what side we’re talking
about it’s all the same we have to ask
ourselves you know the most important
thing is no matter what we do we can do
things in the world but if we’re in our
right minds and we’re doing them it will
be whatever we do would be for the
highest good of all concern and we can
let go of outcomes and not be attached
to what is best because we don’t know
what’s best but the Holy Spirit does and
we can still be helpful and maybe being
helpful is just to forgive that’s what
we first do and then let whatever comes
through us it will be inspired and then
we might not take Ashkan action or we
might check action but it would come
from the right mind and so it would be
loving so I think that’s the key is to
remember again to be in the right mind
is not is to overlook error and remember
that all people no matter how vicious
they can be so remember that again if
they’re acting out no way that’s vicious
there they’re calling for love and so
love might take the form of well they
need to be taken into the police station
and they you know
need to stop themselves from harming
other people so there are consequences
here this level you know at the same
time
whatever happens doesn’t have to affect
the peace of God within me and I can
remember the truth I’m dreaming a dream
it’s my dream no matter what events are
playing out I get to decide how I’m
interpreting this dream but there you go
or the Holy Spirit you know I get to
decide the thoughts I choose people
can’t decide that for me it always comes
back to that – – accepting the atonement
from myself that’s my only
responsibility no matter what it is I’m
doing
I have other really other other ideas
and points in the course I want to make
Mona see if Gary has any or you have any
response my initial response is well you
we must have been on the same wavelength
because I had a conversation earlier
today about a lion in chapter 12 that
are one remaining freedom as as a
prisoner of this world is the freedom to
choose between the two thought systems
which I’m paraphrasing of course but
it’s always always that choice and
that’s the only choice and we need to
make isn’t it yeah and and then that
that that real choice choosing the Holy
Spirit over the ego is what really does
give us the option to to transcend the
level confusion as you were just
pointing out yes yeah yes give me the
beautifully stated yeah of course our
good person had me is it my love that
book I love your sacred geometry book so
I’m your friend okay you know it’s like
the one at me is was the power of
decision is your one remaining power is
a prisoner in this world you can decide
to see it right in other words you can
decide to see it with your right line
Holy Spirit or your wrong mind which is
the ego and I mean it’s good to were
making a distinction between looking and
overlooking because when the ego looks
at something
it looks at it with the intention of
making it real you know the Eagle wants
it to be real the Holy Spirit on the
other hand if it said something
it looks at it with the intention of not
making it for you which is how we want
to think we don’t want to make it real
which is why the Corps says you know
forgiveness it’s not cardinal sins and
make them real
it’s these there was no sin so there’s a
great you know section in the course as
I’m sure you don’t call it the
correction nerve and the very first line
in that section because you know we’ve
already talked about how the course has
be vigilant only for God and his kingdom
in other times in this talking we’ve
mentioned that a couple of times so
here’s the course saying okay be
vigilant only for God’s kingdom always
choose God and his kingdom and in that
section the correction the nurse it
starts off by saying one of my favorite
clients because it says the alertness of
the ego to the errors of other egos is
not the kind of vigilance the Holy
Spirit would have you maintain and I
think we all know for students
especially newer course students who are
really good at playing out the ego in
somebody else you know and no it’s not
really doing of course miracles what you
want to do is you want to learn how to
overlook the errors servers you know and
not make them real switch to the Holy
Spirit and that is the essence of
forgiveness in fact that’s the way that
jesus healed people you know 2,000 years
ago and you can see references to this
in the manual for teachers because you
know you will say at no time does the
teacher of God consider the nature of
the illness of the patient in other
words you don’t get specific about what
it is that you heal and you don’t want
to analyze it and make it real just like
Jesus said to Helen you know can you
find light by analyzing the darkness and
which is by the ways kind of surprised
thing to say to a psychoanalyst but it’s
like the answer is no you can’t make it
real and what Jesus would do when you
heal people have been honest way
she would overlook the illness and he
would overlook the body and he would
think of that person as being this
perfect creation of God that they really
were which is all of it not part of it
because perfect oneness would have to be
everything the course says that spirit
is not a partial you know attribute so
it’s everything it’s oliver son limited
and he would think of them as being
nothing less than God spirit is the same
as God in the course it’s not individual
so he would overlook the illness and
think of them as being what they really
are and if we really want to forgive
people we want to overlook their
mistakes overlook their errors and think
of them as well yeah maybe they think
that that’s really bad they’re really
doing these things but we know better
because we know what they really are and
what they really are is a perfect
creation of God that cannot be heaven
which means that they’re still there
which means that they are as though I
created them just as of course which
means that they are perfect and there’s
nothing to forgive and oh by the way we
never really left heaven anyway because
that’s the principle as you’re sharing
that I was thinking and that overlooking
it’s sort of like I think when we’re in
our right minds the the big deal ‘no
smeet or doesn’t even budge you know
it’s just the needle doesn’t even move
you know but if we’re doing it with the
holy spirit self right something like
that yeah i think what’s interesting is
it’s a good reminder for people that
again of course is really to be done at
the level of the mind of the world so
we’re really it’s really about changing
our minds when when something comes up
that comes up no matter what it is mild
or big it’s all the same but that
disturbs our peace in some way right
then and there
we’re being asked to remember to accept
the atonement for ourselves which is
recognizing that nothing truly happened
it really is a dream that we’re dreaming
I accept responsibility that I’m
dreaming a dream I’m making the figures
act out for
trained by my interpretation of what it
is I’m seeing and I can either make it
real it dream figures real or I can
choose again and I can remember to shift
to my to my right mind and to overlook
all error all forms of separation all
forms the separation takes and the
billions of different forms that it
takes and just do that work first in my
mind and then just as a reminder what I
do then once I’ve made them the most
important choice first Holy Spirit or
ego if I made my right mind then I just
let go and I trust that the Holy Spirit
will guide me I said I’m in my right not
mind whatever I would do or say would be
loving I don’t have to worry about
specifics of what to do what to say you
know in any situation I just trust that
as I’m my only function again accept the
atonement for myself and theirs I want
to read this line from where am i
chapter two under the function of the
miracle worker paragraph four where
Jesus says all forms of not right
mindedness are the result of refusal to
accept the atonement for yourself let me
read that again all forms of not right
mindedness are the result of refusal to
accept the atonement for yourself if you
do if you do accept it you are in a
position to recognize that those who
need healing are simply those who have
not realized that right mindedness is
healing my mindedness is healing so we
think healing is well I’m going to go
out and do something you know specific
or and usually when we have this
investment of strong investment and with
a lot of charge or energy behind it I
have to do something a lot of times
that’s the ego saying this is outrageous
and I need to fix this I need to do
something about it right so that could
be ego you know I know ego oriented
frame of mind too if we don’t watch
carefully where we’re coming from
we feel so right this investment and
that we have to save the world or fix
the world so I I watched that that’s
part of my practices and I watched that
when I have miss uh miss intense energy
come up I just ask myself again where is
it motivated from am i motivated by the
ego and if I am it’s gonna feel like you
know I’m gonna have a really intense
charge behind it that’s different than
inspiration inspiration flows naturally
through you and it’s more about you’re
not attached to any specific outcome you
just have an inspiration you know – that
comes naturally it’s not forced and it
will kind of produce a sense of peace it
will come from your peaceful right mind
so there’s not again a sense that if you
don’t do it something wrong or bad is
going to happen it just blows as a
natural extension of you being in your
right mind being in your right mind and
it’s not allowing isn’t it ya know just
allowing it to flow nationally and
that’s what happens when you are in your
right mind when you choose it you don’t
have to worry about what you say or do
and you can you know set your you know
your goal is to be truly hopeful and but
we don’t have to even know what form
that takes
we’re just understanding that hey I just
want to be truly helpful holy spirit
yeah I give this to you I give this to
you whatever it is that’s bothering me
or disturbing me I don’t know what’s
best and I don’t assume I know it’s best
and because when we assume we know
what’s best or what action to take if
there’s any we kind of stop learning
because we’re assuming that it’s our
it’s coming from oh I
Sindhi know what’s best I have no idea
you know but but so I turn it over and
when I do that I just trust the Holy
Spirit will work through me whatever
ways is for the highest good of all
concerned yeah you know I followed the
news because I figured because I’m a
writer I should know what’s going on in
the Train I should know what’s going on
in the illusion
you know I first started
about the course a long time ago I read
a line him of course I said if you would
be heard by those who suffer
you must speak in a language you know so
I think I should know what’s going on
now I don’t recommend that people watch
the news I do it because I shape it yeah
not something’s probably gonna make you
happy but I do it has a forgiveness
exercise you know when I when the news
comes on right away I know there’s gonna
be something to forgive because the ego
as the core service is ingenious and it
will come up with you know any way that
it can think of two succulent and so you
know I’m watching the news and I’m just
forgiving cold time if I can and if you
can do that if you can forgive when
you’re watching the news 95% of which is
gonna be bad and then they throw in a
positive story at the end they try to
cheer you up but it’s too late you know
so it’s like if you can forgive
everything you see on the news then
you’re probably getting pretty good at
this because the ego is just great at
sucking you in and making you choose
sides and haven’t you make it real and
so it’s just the ego has outdone itself
this year yeah it’s just that it started
off you know us with you know the
tragedy Kobe Bryant and things went
downhill from there I mean it’s just la
just like was the morning for a month
and then all of a sudden this virus is
it’s you know spreading and you know
fortunately I got to go out to a couple
of places that you know I got to go to a
couple of restaurants that I always want
to go to just before the virus hit and
you know that’s my favorite time is you
know I go into restaurants now I can’t I
feel a little itchy little antsy you
know how to eat I can’t
so let’s you know little things like
that it’s all the same you know take out
though right I mean
but the thing is you start to realize ok
it’s all the same you know I may not
look that way but if it’s all equally
untrue then it’s all equally forgivable
that’s why there is no order of
difficulty in miracles I think the more
you realize that the more you’re really
good so we try to forgiving Cindy
watches the news with me sometimes I’ll
make comments that may sound like I’m
making it real but I’m not really
because I know it’s not I know in your
mind you’re not me
[Music]
I just you know say things so it’s like
it’s it’s really about you know habits I
think do you have to get yourself into
the habit of forgiving so much that it’s
like automatic you just do it no matter
what when you get to that point then
you’re making tremendous progress yeah
it really really is a practice isn’t it
just a repetition as is earned and
versus a us you know we we need the
repetition to just notice you know to
look with the holy spirit over and over
again until the forgiveness becomes
automatic and I I’m thinking that you
know in a way even though on the level
of form things seem to be kind of
whacked out on a order of magnitude you
know perhaps a level you know
unprecedented it also is sort of an
unprecedented opportunity occurred to me
that you know there’s an oriental symbol
for for was that crisis is danger an
opportunity together and that symbol in
the I think it’s Japanese character
anyway so it’s like it’s also an
opportunity to look at the unconscious
guilt and the unconscious stuff on our
minds on a deeper level and recognize ok
well now maybe with all the stuff going
on I can really look at what you know
the social distancing or the personal
distancing and realize well what what
really is a part it what’s really
separate and truth well if nothing is
separate then the the amount of physical
distance between people is really just a
hoax isn’t it I mean it’s it’s really on
the level of form it seems really
important but on the level of mind it’s
like wait a minute
our minds are joined and we’re all
joined and we can all remember
that we were all connected and we can
use this as an opportunity to to use a
different thought system and so I so I
think I think things like this with you
know zooms popularity you know
skyrocketing because people want to stay
connected so we can use things like this
as metaphors or symbols for the
realization that we never left and we’re
all the same and yeah ultimately all one
huh very good point what you’re saying
I’ve noticed during this time that a lot
of people are converging with people
that they weren’t normally connecting
with I mean there’s blessings in all of
this it’s being that I can use this as a
lesson and as a classroom but also it’s
a blessing because it’s connecting me
with people that maybe I wouldn’t
normally I speak with as much or or as
often people are at least of our circles
I notice things people are coming
together more you know even kind of
about joining in that sense that and and
it is although our bodies eyes are
experiencing this separation as far as
the physical distancing you’re right
in our minds we know the truth though
we’re not bodies reminded minds are
truly joined so we can never really be
apart from people exactly people anyway
but in your mind you know that’s what I
do maybe they’re late as I’m walking
around during this time everybody
smashed something and everybody’s like
social distancing I walk though but
within my mind with that with the truth
in other words I just always think of
those right-minded ideas which is I’m
not this is just this is a trick this is
an illusion you know this is part of the
script that’s playing out right now but
it’s nothing to do with reality I’m one
with all you know and I just remember
that as I’m walking around in my bodies
I see I see the physical distancing but
I don’t buy into it that’s what it
really means to not make it real you’re
not getting caught up or invested and
what the body’s eyes are showing you not
invested in it you’re not making it real
it doesn’t have to take away the peace
of God in your mind just because your
bodies either seems
you know specific you just always can
walk the world but know you’re not of
the world
you know you transcend the above the
battleground the famous line in the
chorus being above the battleground and
looking at the events going on with
Jesus or the Holy Spirit which gives us
such a more peaceful and loving and
joining way of dealing with all of this
you know just remember the truth peace
can return instantly you know it really
can I saw I saw a really cool little
video on Facebook of like like a mouse
or something like that it was a gopher
in a little cardboard maze and I shared
it on Facebook earlier today yesterday
anyway and it was basically this
cardboard maze was only like you know
the walls from like maybe four or five
inches tall and this this mouse kind of
got the bright idea it’s like well
metaphorically like Holy Spirit say hey
let’s get above the battleground let’s
look at this maze from a little
different perspective and rather than
having to go through all the the you
know the labyrinth of all the corridors
in this maze it just climbed up said oh
well I can see where I’m trying to get
to go and and hopped across the walls to
top the walls and and I was thinking
what it what a great metaphor for you
know the quantum forgiveness that your
books talked about and it’s like well
you know we don’t have to go through all
those those the circuitous roads thank
you exactly and we can we can just kind
of like look it’s like well maybe Holy
Spirit’s help it can really give us a
little boost here and we can not skip
over steps but just you know minimize
the need for time and by you know really
pedal to the metal on the forgiveness
you know the maze analogy is really good
yeah and you can kind of observe things
that we don’t have to specifically get
caught up in those and the specifics of
what’s happening the background which
again anyone who’s listening who might
not be familiar with above the
battleground it just means you’re
returning and remembering your mind not
like you’re returning to the mind
looking at the events with the Holy
Spirit you know instead of the ego
you know which means we can look at
what’s going on without judging it about
the judgment you know look and forgive
you know and from that place you know
you’re seeing with correct perception
it’s quite instead of wrong-minded
perception which keeps us rooted in the
dream in the maze it keeps us stuck here
feeling stuck so to be above the
battleground is to remember that wait I
mind I have a choice you know
yeah of a decision-making mind I can
choose I also think I also has kind of
related to this very esoteric thing that
of courses first few pages the audience
in Revelation timing where it goes about
switching to a vertical access
horizontal axis people see that it’s
like I love that metaphor yeah yeah cuz
and the horizontal axis I’ve been
thinking a lot about well Jeff Siebert
from the foundation for Course in
Miracles and then Tim Lin Quran have
just adopted his what they call the the
wheel of misfortune and he made a little
diagram it shows all the different
things in the world the different
categories of grievances and and in
victim hoods and issues and you know
there’s people and then there’s religion
there’s politics there’s sex drugs rock
and roll you know all the different
stuff that people you know have special
of hate relationships and I along this
wheel and then any you know we every day
we spin the wheel a bunch of times and
different things come up and it’s sort
of like the unmarry go around that are
personal talk about you know solve all
the things in the world on this
horizontal plane that that are you know
the propaganda machine spinning around
giving us different forgiveness
opportunities and if we buy into those
things and and you know get into the
grievances you know we’re just basically
saying I mean I’m ignoring this this
this rope ladder that Jesus is coming
hanging down from the helicopter saying
you can get above the maze and the
vertical axis you don’t and if we get it
you know obsessed with trying to fix the
outcomes in the dream we were just going
around that wheel you know trying to
keep every little thing you know working
the way we think it should without
realizing wait a minute maybe there’s
another yeah
it’s also so helpful Bruce and you know
I like to share to some of some of my
practices what helps me and any any kind
of what I feel could be a challenging
time is I also remember what the course
says about time itself about in other
words that the script itself the
dimensions of time and I always
remembered that if I’m really sticking
to the course it means the world was
over long ago and if the world was over
long ago it already happened which every
possible scenario that we could think up
also happen in that original instant we
chose the separation if it’s already
done and over in that sense it doesn’t
really matter what happens in the world
it’s more of us what we’re doing with
what happens I mean how we’re thinking
about what purpose so that could sound
like blasphemy to the ego to say we
doesn’t matter what happens in the world
but the world is already the world you
can’t do anything about the world I mean
it’s already done it over I mean all the
dimensions of time exist if it’s seen
that way it becomes easier to say well I
do have a choice then in how I’m seeing
it I’m look that’s what I just might go
to kind of thoughts when I remembered if
I’m reacting to the world right now I’m
making a world that was over long ago
real again a tiny mad idea the tiny mad
idea I’m just making it real for myself
over and over again so it doesn’t mean I
don’t care it means that I’m just
shifting my perception of the world
which is more helpful than perpetuating
the dream and making the dream of
separation more real over and over again
by reacting with the ego that makes it
real I’m reacting with the ego so those
kind of ideas when I think of the script
is written you know already done it
doesn’t mean you can’t switch dimensions
of time within the script you can and
maybe experience a gentle or former and
your experience could be a more loving
experience that can happen as a result
of forgiveness as long as we just still
know it’s part of a larger script that’s
still playing out and then till egos
undone and then you’re in the real world
you know what
it’s forgiven world all has been
forgiven there’s no more sense of
separation or lack division of any kind
no matter what happens you’re at peace
and then you again whatever you do in
the world
it would just be guided by that peace by
the right night yeah as you’re sharing
that I was always I was thinking one of
the corollaries to that that this is
already over is I try to remind myself
sometimes with fun start to get
concerned about what anyone else does or
doesn’t do you know throw that first
step of forgiveness is bringing back
inside it’s like wait a minute if the
dream is already over this is was done
long ago
then the only one that’s playing hooky
from perfect oneness is me everyone’s
already you know at home weight kind of
waiting around thrilling their thumbs
waiting for me to wake up and I don’t
have to worry about what anyone else is
doing so honest is back on on my
decision maker choosing the holy spirit
and it’s like okay I guess I better
catch up so I can you know get back with
everyone so when you say I’m the one
yeah exactly
perfect bringing it full circle to that
except you told it yeah yeah
can I read something else that’s
something to read like to have certain
things from the course yeah I just wing
it because there are certain passages in
the course I just love to point out that
are just so relevant to what you know
the conversation is and so I want to
read chapter three section two miracles
as true perception paragraph three when
you lack confidence in what someone will
do you are attesting to your belief that
he is not in his right mind this is
hardly a miracle based frame of
reference it also has the
Astra’s effect of denying the power of
the miracle the miracle perceives
everything as it is if nothing but the
truth exists right-minded seeing cannot
see anything but perfection coming back
to the right mind that’s what being in
the right mind means you’re not seeing
anything but total one is total
perfection total innocence I have said
this is Jesus speaking of course I have
said that only what God creates or what
you create with the same will has any
real existence this then is all the
innocent can see they do not suffer from
distorted perception so the least little
annoyance irritation from hangnails to
Holocaust is all part of that Jeff oh
just another forgiveness opportunity
classroom but to be able to see the same
because it’s all equally true you know
that’s not always easy to do sometimes
but the course is saying if there’s no
hierarchy of illusions no order of
difficulty miracles it’s equally
forgivable because it’s all equally
untrue equally from again this only
makes sense you know forgiveness as the
course is teaching it only makes sense
when you go about the background when
you think of it as level one the
ultimate reality but there’s only God
only love that’s the only way this kind
of forgiveness can make sense to us let
me kind of look at it from that place
and that’s why we need the Holy Spirit’s
help every step of the way because we’re
on our own we’re just gonna get off
track I mean even if the good news even
and that is that we’re always going to
be kind of will get back on course
eventually we have to could be outcome
is certain the outcome is always love is
absolutely certain you know we’re all
we’re all awakening to that definitely
yeah happy done deal huh
let’s let’s elaborate a little bit about
the difference between you know reality
and non-reality course miracle is not
the first teaching in history to ever
suggest that there is a reality that is
just beyond the veil now the veil is
illusion is not true so it’s not true
well first of all anything that moves
it’s not true of course there’s whatever
it’s true is eternal and cannot change
or be changed so when it’s true it’s
something that is eternal and it’s a
constant thing it’s constancy so this is
what Jesus is talking about 2,000 years
ago he used the metaphor
building a house upon the rock instead
of the sand
it’s what Buddha was talking about when
you talked about this that we’re
experiencing as being impermanent
you know something temporary and the
reality is something that is a constant
that you can never lose you can never
change it it will always be reality it
was the truth a million years ago it’ll
still be the truth a million years from
now and it doesn’t matter what appears
to happen and I think part of the
mindset that we want to get into with
forgiveness is to realize that no matter
what appears to happen I mean like if
you know nuclear bomb went off in New
York City and killed a million people or
millions it doesn’t really matter even
though that you know talking about
blasphemy to the ego the truth is it’s
not true and that’s why there’s no order
of difficulty in miracles and it is
forgivable I’m not saying that it’s easy
to forget that I am saying that what
we’re seeing is not true and the
remarkable consistency of the course
that you see from beginning to end now
as it says that it really is you know
something that I admire very much
because it never wavers from that so we
you know have to expand that idea a
little bit about the truth being a
constant thing but the course unlike
anything
I’ve ever seen I’ve been looking for 40
years nothing else actually brings it
home the way the course does in
identifying that constant reality as God
and as God being you know the only thing
that’s true the ultimate truth is aren’t
in person which would it and as the
course puts it you know we say God is
and then we cease to speak because
there’s nothing else and if you can
overlook everything and be vigilant only
for reality which is God and his kingdom
and realize that people have never left
okay now then you are going a long ways
toward being able to reply this kind of
forgiveness because you overlook
everything no matter what it is and as
our divers have been emphasizing
recently especially in the fourth book
is that we have to be ready to forgive
no matter what you know in the fourth
book they talked about you you’re gonna
have to contend with genetically
engineered viruses and things like that
and I saw that what the hell is that
and yet the next year or soon after you
know here we are contending with the
virus I don’t know if it was genetically
engineered or not but I do know that
they suggest things that tell us look we
have to be ready to forgive no matter
what appears to happen no matter how
crazy you know if Donald Trump is
talking on TV and the UFO pops out of
his head you know we have to be prepared
for that you know so in other words do
for you anything and I like to feel that
I am but then whatever you think that
you’re ready to forgive anything eagle
will probably come up with something
else
because there you go is very good at
that so we have to get into that mindset
that state of miracle and readiness that
the course talks about very early in
those first 50 miracles principles where
you’re just ready you know it’s not that
you expect something bad to happen but
you know that something bad is going to
happen because that’s the nature of the
stream you have good and bad so that you
know that is going to be in there
somewhere and so you’re just ready for
it
and you’re ready to no matter what and
when
get ready to forgive no matter what and
it happens it makes easier for you to
just say okay you know that’s the ego
you know that’s why you go I don’t have
to take it seriously and I can overlook
it and I can be vigilant only for God
and his kingdom and think of all people
as being what they really are and where
they really are instead of what the ego
would want me to interpret them as being
I wanted to take your example of it
let’s say I’m just as for the sake of an
example of something that might seem
really extreme like a nuclear reaction
reactor bomb going off that was in the
world level would seem like this huge
gigantic thing and my process with that
would if I’m sticking to practicing the
principles of the course would have to
be the same as anything in other words I
would still for if required forgiveness
I would still see whoever appeared to be
the cause of igniting a bomb I would
still have to see that person that’s
calling below I would still have to see
it like I would anybody else calling for
love I would still be you know be
required to look at that with non
judgment remember that look this is my
dream it doesn’t mean I’m responsible
for other people’s behavior in the dream
but I am responsible for sight as the
course says for me again how am I am
even preceding that it’s no different
than anything else so my process would
be just that it would be yes do what I
can to take care of myself don’t deny
that but at the mind level I’m looking
at it again at my right with my right
mind which would bring peace much more
quickly Venice as it been if I was
making it much more real for myself by
looking at it with the ego which is
really the teacher of pain and it
reinforces that pain and reinforces the
solidness that we feel the dream is the
solid hard place you know so that would
be my practices if forgiveness is
necessary I would do the steps you know
remember that this is a call for love
and that my response in some way would
be loving and maybe that response would
just be that I’m just forgiving and
looking at all this
non-judgement and knowing that
everything either is either an
expression of love or a call for love
you know and then let that sit and trust
the process you know really trust and
give it to the holy spirit and that’s
part of the practice you know is that a
goal of the course is really the
attainment of true peace in other words
regardless of what’s happening again no
matter how big or small I can choose
peace instead of this you know I can you
know so I just want to give people you
know more of a personal example just
last night I got up in the middle of
night excited to go to the bathroom I’m
really groggy because I just was just
coming out of a dream so I’m kind of
still in the dream I’m stumbling to the
bathroom ice I ran right into the wall
right into the door mat like really hard
I mean really it was just and I was like
oh and I might nose a gush of blood came
out of my nose okay and I’m sitting here
like oh my god my nose is bleeding I
just ran into the door you know Gary’s
turn up out of it in the bed like are
you okay and I and I’m like yeah I think
I am but blood is gushing out of my nose
right now so I just want to share with
you my process okay I guess again
doesn’t matter what form what happens
and that is what you do with what
happened what you’re thinking so what
happened was is I think that could have
been worse number one if I hadn’t been
practicing forgiveness all this time I’m
doing more layers of unconscious guilt
it would have hurt and it should have
hurt a lot more it was more just
shocking than anything else I just was
kind of shocked but it didn’t really
hurt so I just dealt with it
physically you know I got a tissue and
all that and I remembered I went back to
bed immediately laid down immediately
remember that you know the guiltless
mind cannot suffer I’m not a body I’m
free I’m still as God created me
Jim cannot exist
you know the body is outside me and not
my concern
Holy Spirit I give this
to you nothing really happened I’m not
guilty of anything I never separated
from God you know and so I did this
thought process in my mind just wasn’t
long since I got a brief series of right
minded thoughts and I turned it over the
Holy Spirit and I trusted that and I
decided that I would be well I could be
well regardless of what’s happening into
my body physically and I said I’m
deciding to be peaceful I’m deciding to
be well when I wake up in the morning
you know I’m deciding to wake up you
know again not judging anything just
recognize I’m waking up to another dream
so I did that when I woke up this
morning it was like nothing happened you
know everything was like you know normal
and and I can honestly say that if I was
looking that and I got really caught up
in that and I always really really chose
to suffer you know or just making it
very real for myself and that the body
is real it would have been a whole
different experience so I just wanted to
share like a personal example of how I
even worked something like that I mean
and that I just remembered the truth and
it doesn’t mean maybe sometimes you
might not feel something in the body it
just means that you can still look at it
correctly though remember that pain is
in the mind you know not the body I can
change my mind about this so this this
can be you know use with anything that’s
going on in the world though you just
you just stop here you catch yourself
and you remember the truth then and the
best you can in those moments when
something shocks you or something you
know disturbs your peace or doesn’t
matter what it is you know it’s just
about coming back and catching yourself
if you’re you’re looking at it with the
ego you know that you could choose again
you could use another way I can see this
or look at this so I just wanted to
share that it’s great yeah because as we
go along and we keep on doing either it
was less guilt in my mind because all
pain is a function of guilt as of course
as to guilt this mind cannot suffer I
remember the first time our camper
supported that line to me
mine cannot suffice that oh yeah but
what about me and it’s like as you go
along and undo a needle I’ve gotten into
situations like a little accidents where
I you know hurt myself and it should
have hurt but it didn’t and that’ll
happen to you in any thing that’s
strange you know I mean that should hurt
but it doesn’t but when you think about
it it’s not really any different than
psychological pain because you either be
in situations where you’re gonna get
into a place where something happens
that used to bother you and it used to
upset you and then it happens and it
doesn’t upset you and you’ll think well
yeah that’s strange because that used to
bother you stop something and now it’s
not I’m peaceful instead and at first
it’s kind of like intermittent oh you go
back and forth it’s not going to be
constant at first you know so sometimes
you’ll hurt yourself and it’ll hurt
sometimes you’ll hurt yourself and it
doesn’t work it’s the same psychological
sometimes something will bother you and
sometimes it won’t bother you but as you
keep going along and you keep on doing
the ego you kind of like are allowing
the Holy Spirit to dominate your mind to
the point where you’re going to get to
where it doesn’t bother you and it never
bothers you and it never hurts you and
when you get to that point you’re
starting to become like Jesus you’re
starting to get to the point where well
nothing can disturb my peace of mind and
you started kind of like rethinking some
of these lines from the course that
you’ve been thinking about for years but
they become more and more truth to you
you know like I am as God created his
son can suffer nothing and I am his son
and by the way if I am as God created me
that means that I’m still exactly the
same as God because God doesn’t do
different God doesn’t make different
things and that with distinctions
between it’s all perfect oneness which
is in fact of course is the definition
of heaven you know so as you go along
all these things you’ve been learning in
the course they just become more and
more true for you and you keep getting
them on deeper and deeper levels
and it’s a great process to go through
it’s something that is what we’re doing
it’s fun to know the truth it’s
entertaining sometimes so I it’s you
know I mean it’s not expensive it’s of
course cause 30 bucks and you get 30
years four years out yeah that’s pretty
cheap so I you know I’m just so grateful
for my life but of course because I
didn’t have the course I think my life
would have been kind of sad and instead
it’s been you know just something that
turned out to be really great good I
think life is sad when we’re identifying
with the ego yeah that sadness right
there if I feel sad and that’s in the
feeling all of us can feel from time to
time or maybe have self but if you feel
sad or lonely when you remember that’s
that’s ego identification doesn’t mean
we’re not going to feel it sometimes you
can be gentle and patient with yourself
and kind but we’ll remember what it is
though I’m feeling soon because I’m
identifying with the eve of the teacher
of sadness the teacher of pain the
teacher of separation which breeds
sadness loneliness so I don’t have to
keep identified with that that’s not
what I am I can choose again here comes
the right mind and the right right
mindedness is correction or wrong
mindedness
it’s correction or wrong-minded thinking
you know wrong mind thinking is what
makes us feel fear and all the different
feelings or emotions that come from fear
that’s wrong mindedness it doesn’t mean
we’re not going to feel it sometimes and
we should just forgive it when that
happens
but we can do that without judging
ourselves for that and that’s probably
the most probably important thing is non
judgment and of course because we’re
judging it we’re making it very real for
ourselves or more judging ourselves or
somebody else that causes us to lose
peace let me judge a dream and the
figures in our dream so we want to
gently make that shift you know and it’s
it’s all that’s doing the work right
there if we can just look which again
merely means to overlook error in
judgment
that look without the judgment shoes
again make the shift recognize that the
the outer world the outer pandemic that
we’re seeing as a reflection of the
inner pandemic in the mind you know the
outer world is a pictorial
representation of what’s in our mind
because cause and effect are one they’re
not separate from each other so we
remember that – that the world we’re
seeing is an effect of the mind it’s not
cut the cause of anything it’s not the
decision maker of anything it’s just the
screen projecting on to a screen then we
can remember that put cause in its
proper place in the mind in my mind that
I can choose again you know make a
different choice how I’m looking at the
dream what I’ve seen and that’s my
salvation
choosing the Holy Spirit is my salvation
you know so that’s what corrects the
wrong-minded perception of the world
that we all made so choice again that
simple that simple little switch in the
mind in the decision maker isn’t it yeah
as you’re assuring that I was thinking
you know that there’s an acronym that
I’ve been using lately that that I
figured Holy Spirit is is helping me to
remember to not take it seriously so so
that I use the SSSs which is the silly
seemingly separate self and and if I can
look at that without judgment without
condemnation and just say oh there goes
that Bruce character that little dream
figure doing this thing and and if I
cannot you know remember to identify
with spirit instead of that that that
silly seemingly separate self and it all
of its issues and and concerns and
worries and and stuff and it’s it’s big
deal things and just kind of kind of not
derisive Lee but just sort of gently
look at it and and smile and just okay
there that thing goes again and in time
you know we we kind of let let go of it
don’t we and it becomes easier and
easier like you’re like you’re steering
yeah yeah yeah so you know I just want
to remind the people
watching this of the importance of
forgiveness and the reason I say that is
I’ve been to study groups you know
they’ll talk about the course for now
and a half and you won’t hear the word
forgiveness mentioned once in the whole
discussion and I’ve seen course teachers
talk about the course teach the course
and never use the word forgiveness once
in the time that they’re speaking and
that just shows you how good the ego is
that what it does because the ego is so
great at pulling the wool over people’s
eyes making them not see what the course
is saying if you actually realize that
the course was not forgiveness and it’s
not hard to spot it all the way through
the course it’s everywhere all the way
through the course and yet many people
don’t see it so you know I don’t want
people to know that if you’re not doing
forgiveness you know i doing in course
of miracles and you want to get as good
at it as you can and you want to listen
to the teachers who do talk about you
know forgiveness so I don’t just mean
Cindy and I and my sister-in-law Jackie
you know there are others may be done
maybe to others and it’s like okay but
you know Ken Waffen of course Bob
Rosenthal excellent like we’ve seen him
speaking he’s terrific it’s like but you
want to go with the teachers who are
talking about forgiveness and true for
it was not the kind of forgiveness that
makes it real
you know the kind of forgiveness that
doesn’t make it real and that’s what the
course is about and I always like to
emphasize that at some point because I
don’t think that people are really
getting that for mostly teachers who are
teaching the course well you’re right
forgiveness is the key to happiness I
mean the course talks a lot about
forgiveness as the means of the
atonement it offers everything I want
[Laughter]
forgiveness is the central theme that
runs through salvation holding all of
its parts and meaningful relationships
the course of Lawrence director
and its outcome short so you know
forgiveness is the central thing of
course and you know you want to learn it
but you also want to do it it’s like the
old Chinese proverb you know to know and
yet not do is to not yet know you know
it’s like you got to do it and that is
the course is in the application I want
to tell everybody Bruce – you are always
on very uncompromising with the course
I’m learning or unlearning perhaps this
may be the better phrase right this is
just for people who really truly want
the pure course you know forgiveness is
the central teaching and and you know
Bruce you do do that you do stick to
well I do and again it doesn’t matter
there’s no judge you may not but just
for those that are really you know what
what is the course really saying you
know it’s nice to have people to kind of
point people toward if that’s what they
really want that’s all yeah there’s a
lot of mutual appreciation here so
needless to say well I think we’re all
we’re all learning to undo the the we’ve
a paradigm with the forgiveness
classroom that we’re we’re given and and
it does seem like you know this year’s
been a particularly simultaneously it
you know it almost seems just doesn’t it
like that you know when things seem to
get stranger on the level of form they
also there is an opportunity to again to
to notice the mind more deeply and and
just really pay attention to it’s like
there been reports of people reporting
psychological distress depression anger
the cases are up like thirty percent
since these lockdowns started and you
know the financial stress that people
are under
now it’s like you got all all these
forces working on people let’s making it
very very difficult for them so if
forgiveness wasn’t hard enough in normal
times now it’s getting hard and that’s
where we need to remember that it’s
still all the same no matter what it
looks like you know it is still all the
same which means they saw equally
forgivable now the fact is equally
forgivable doesn’t mean it’s all easy
but it is do you know the Holy Spirit
wouldn’t give us a course and give us
you know a plan and a job that we
couldn’t do you know it is doable not
easy but doable like one final thought
one final thought anybody is having
difficulty with this during this time
and kind of being at home more a
lockdown and all the events going on
with and the protests and all of that
you know Jesus makes a point in the
course too that if everything was
perfect all the time in the world
there’d be no motivation to go with him
you know in other words a world is not
made to be perfect but it can be used as
an opportunity to explore right your
mind
so within you know and it’s safe to go
with this you know the ego will tell us
we’ll be it’ll be annihilated if it goes
within and chooses the right mind or
chooses love chooses God that’s the end
of the ego you don’t have to listen to
the ego
remember it’s safe to go in because the
Holy Spirit is also in your mind and you
can get in touch with that quiet center
and you know you know if you feel lonely
you know if you feel that there’s I’m at
home or I’m not talking to people it’s
it can be a really beautiful classroom
and opportunity to do just that
explore the inner realms a little more
you know whatever that means for you it
can be a blessing you know and you know
it seems like when you’re alone you’re
alone because there’s no bodies around
you that’s that’s that’s a false sense
of being alone you’re never ever alone
you know because number one the Holy
Spirit’s always with you in your mind
and there are beings around you all the
time you just can’t see you know and so
you’re never truly alone because all
minds are Jo
so when you remember those ideas you
know it can really help and you can you
know make a different choice you can
even remind yourself I’m choosing this
and be gentle and patient with yourself
and loving remember that I don’t have
two teachers the teacher of loneliness I
can acknowledge I feel it you don’t have
to deny it but just gently look at it
allow yourself to feel it and just
remind yourself
I can choose again whenever I’m ready
that choice is always there I just say
thank you for that and what that reminds
me of is is it was actually in high
school I got a big piece of computer
paper and I wrote a big black law block
letters I’m choosing to feel this way
and this is this is when I was first
studying metaphysics I before the course
came out and and I was just like this
phrase that came to me and I wrote this
and had it you know take you know pinned
up against the ceiling there and every
I’d look up I said I’m choosing to feel
this way and and I noticed that when
that was was easy was when I was quote
having a good day and yeah but when it
really was helpful truly helpful is when
I was interpreting the events of the
world as is not going my way and then I
would look up with I say grit my teeth
the thing that’s still true and that
that’s what it started to sink in it’s
like it really is a choice in the mind
in any given moment isn’t it I mean and
that’s that’s the choice that we all
have and that’s the decision maker that
the course talks about and and and what
both of you shared very eloquently and
helpfully about today so thank you thank
you so very much my people if they want
to know what we’re doing in person you
can go to our website which is and you
can find out if you want to join our
online classes we do two a month on
different themes from the course I have
a lot of information on that
sigh Cindy Laura calm you can find out
how to just become a subscriber or just
we also have a pay-as-you-go option if
you don’t want to subscribe monthly but
we get pretty deep in these classes and
they’re fun a good group of people so if
you’re interested in that just want to
let you know excellent excellent
yes highly recommended yeah I might
actually start doing workshops in person
again we’ll see we’re playing it by ear
they’ll be on your events page right
yeah great super well thank you Oh
likewise likewise I even a great friend
over the years we always enjoy you know
we should do it more often we always
enjoyed speaking with definitely
definitely yeah hey thanks again I look
forward to our next conversation me too
yeah good to see you my gosh yeah yeah